How to Engage Citizens Through Storytelling

Tyler Podcast Episode 27, Transcript

Our Tyler Technologies podcast explores a wide range of complex, timely, and important issues facing communities and the public sector. Expect approachable tech talk mixed with insights from subject matter experts and a bit of fun. Host and Content Marketing Director Jeff Harrell – and other guest hosts – highlights the people, places, and technology making a difference. Give us listen today and subscribe.

Episode Summary

Join first-time guest host Beth Amann as she explores the power of storytelling with Kate Nadolski, a marketing content specialist and former broadcast journalist who spent 7 years in local news, covering and crafting stories across the state of Michigan and beyond. Did you know cities like Denver and Detroit are hiring Chief Storytelling Officers? Jurisdictions across the world are beginning to understand how important storytelling is when engaging their citizens. Beth and Kate explore some practical ways you can become skilled at crafting a story that connects with your audience.

Transcript

Kate Nadolski: Another thing to keep in mind is to let the story dictate its own length. When you try to make something longer than it needs to be, you're in turn burying that message and making it more difficult for the reader to walk away with the most important information that you wanted them to take away. If it's meant to be shorter, let it be shorter, or if it's the best interview you've ever conducted, let it be a long story.

Jeff Harrell: From Tyler Technologies, it's the Tyler Tech Podcast, where we talk about issues facing communities today and highlight the people, places and technology, making a difference. I'm Jeff Harrell, the director of content marketing for Tyler, and I'm glad you've joined me. Well, today is a milestone day for the Tyler Tech Podcast. I have been wanting to have a guest host; someone who can bring another voice and another perspective to the podcast, and today is the day. While I'm excited to announce that Beth Amman is joining the show as a guest host, Beth will be on from time to time throughout the year, and I'm very excited because Beth is a marketing communication specialist for Tyler and a wearer of many hats. She is a theater artist, a performer, a producer, most notably having co-founded the Monumental Theater Company in Washington, DC, but Beth is also a veteran podcaster. She is the co-host of a podcast called What is Love Actually, and I'm very excited to bring that skillset to the Tyler Tech Podcast.

Without further ado, and before I even tell you what topic we're talking about today, what problem we're addressing, I would like to introduce you to Beth Amman. Well, I'm really excited because usually when I'm introducing a guest, it's because I'm about to interview them for a podcast, but today is very special because I'm interviewing a guest that's actually going to be a guest host on the Tyler Tech Podcast. Beth Amman, welcome to the Tyler Tech Podcast.

Beth Amman: Thank you, Jeff. I am so excited to be able to do this. Thank you for handing over the reins for this episode.

Jeff Harrell: Yes. We're going to do this episode and we're going to have future episodes, so I'm very, very excited. I think before I actually hand you the keys, I would like to ask Beth, tell us just a little bit about yourself. I know you are a veteran podcaster and you've done a lot, so give us a real quick bio on Beth Amman.

Beth Amman: I have been with Tyler for about five years now. I'm a Marketing Communications Specialist, and Jeff actually found out about my podcast through a brain date, which is a cool feature we've used internally at Tyler and also at our Tyler Connect Conference talking about podcasting and I'm asking you all these questions like, how do you do that? You're thinking, why is she so curious about that, and thinking I might have my own podcast and ulterior motives. Then you turned around and said, how about you come join the Tyler Tech Podcast for a couple episodes? I'm so excited to be talking about all of the amazing things local government leaders are doing and to be a part of this project. Thank you for having me.

Jeff Harrell: Absolutely. Well, we're in great hands with Beth. Beth, with that, I'm going to just give you the keys and let you go.

Beth Amman: Oh my gosh. So exciting. Thank you, Jeff. Well, hello everyone. Like Jeff said, my name is Beth Amman. I am thrilled to be able to guest host and to talk to you about one of my favorite topics; storytelling. In addition to working at Tyler, I am a theater producer, podcast host and performer. You could say that storytelling is my favorite thing. I love how it's something that's woven into our lives and everyday work. It's not just for people who do that every day as a part of their job. It's for everyone, especially local government leaders trying to engage better with their community. I am so excited to bring on my guest.

I know we just had a meta moment of Jeff introducing me and now I'm introducing someone else, but why not bring on someone who knows so much about storytelling? I'm excited to welcome one of my colleagues from Tyler Tech, Kate Nadolski. Kate is a marketing content specialist at Tyler and a former broadcast journalist. She studied communication and journalism in school, and before working at Tyler, she spent seven years in local news covering stories across the state of Michigan and beyond. She is the perfect person to talk about this with me. Kate, welcome to the podcast.

Kate Nadolski: Thank you so much, Beth. I'm so excited to be here and of course be talking to you about our favorite topic, as you mentioned, storytelling.

Beth Amman: Oh my gosh. Well, Kate, you had given an internal presentation to the Tyler marketing team a few weeks ago on storytelling, and I could not stop thinking about it. I was just so inspired by the simple and beautiful reminder of how to craft a compelling story and to share important information with your audience that I started thinking of how our local government leaders could and in many cases are taking the same approach to sharing critical information with their residents. Storytelling is something that we encounter every day and has been a part of our culture for thousands of years. It's such an awesome tool to use, especially when trying to engage with people and get people to better understand the information local governments are putting out there, but I know you and I were like, yes, storytelling, got this, 100%. So ready, but a lot of our listeners are probably thinking, I'm not a storyteller, but I am so glad you are here to tell them otherwise.

Kate Nadolski: Absolutely. I believe that we are all storytellers, whether we realize it or not. Storytelling and stories are truly the fabric of our lives. You can read a book, you can watch a movie, you can even paint a picture, and through these means and more you are essentially telling stories. Stories are the way we as humans are adding value, connection and meaning into our lives. It's also how we learn. For instance, it can be a heartfelt story that makes you realize that you're passionate about something or a story that's told for more logical purposes. For example, a story that puts an emphasis on the dangers of something. Maybe a story about the consequences of drinking and driving. This type of story is going to help others be more educated on the topic so they can then protect themselves and make more informed decisions. Now, as you know, the importance of effective storytelling is even greater when it comes to public safety, and of course, local government agencies.

Beth Amman: Yeah. I love that you point out that it's how we learn. I'm far more likely to absorb information if it's presented in a story format than I would if it's in a wall of text or just a bunch of numbers on a page. I love too that you bring up even artwork can be a story. It doesn't have to be the traditional so and so started here, they went on an adventure and then they moved here. There's so many different ways to tell stories and share information with people. I want to dive into some questions that will help our listeners put on their storytelling hat. Local government leaders, they are releasing important information to the public all the time, and in a world where we're now all at our computers all the time, it can be really hard to break through the noise, so I wanted to ask you, how do you get people to engage and care about the information that you're releasing?

Kate Nadolski: Definitely. There's a few different things you can keep in mind as you're trying to engage your audience. I recently attended a virtual marketing conference, and one of the speakers had some fantastic insight that I would love to share with you. He started off by saying that one of the most important things you need to do is to know your audience. You need to figure out what your audience or community really, truly cares about, and then use that knowledge to tell stories on topics that they're interested in. Now, secondly, many times if you're writing a story, you'll need to do an interview. It's extremely important to pick the right person to interview for your story. If you're writing a story about a critical event that happened in the community, your best bet is to go all the way to the top and interview someone like the police chief or the sheriff. This person would be the expert on that specific situation and able to provide all of those necessary details.

By making sure that you are including credible people and information in your stories, you're in turn creating transparency and trust, as you probably know, is extremely important, and you're creating this between your organization and the audience you're trying to reach. Providing clear, accurate, and reliable information consistently will assure your audience that you are a trustworthy source that they can rely on. In my opinion, I think that is exactly what you want. Lastly, you want to make sure that you are delivering a genuine message.

Beth, as you mentioned just a minute ago, there is so much noise out there. It's in our email inboxes, on social media. We are constantly bombarded by messages from everyone and anyone. Many times a lot of these messages are scripted or they have some type of ulterior motive behind them. Because we have been so exposed to these types of messages constantly, I think most people can see right through it. That's why it is so important to make sure that your message is genuine and even personal. I think people look for that effort and that connection. When they see it and recognize it, it can really go a long way. When you succeed, it being genuine in your message, you're going to be able to build better trust with your community, paving that path to more effective communication. Not only from you to them, but also from them to you as well.

Why Residents Should Care

Beth Amman: Those three things go together so well. How you know your audience is so important because then you'll know who they will respond to. They will know that they can trust that person who is delivering that message. Finding that magic combination with those three of who will my audience trust? I know them, so I know they will trust this person, and what information do they care about most that will make them believe that this is genuine? They can break through, like you said, break through all that noise instead of just being like, look, more information, another report, and then tune it out entirely.

I actually heard recently that there are some governments who are hiring chief storytellers to be on their staff. The cities of Denver and Detroit are doing this and they're hiring these chief storytellers to boost community engagement and relationship building. They're working to make sure that people can directly communicate with their local government leaders, and that information is reaching all members of the community, especially the traditionally underserved portions of their population. They're doing that by knowing their audience, just like you said. They're finding someone who can connect with them. They are finding someone to deliver the message that they care about.

There are tons of laws mandating the release of information from the Open Data Act to the Evidence Act to FOIA, so it's really easy for governments to just say, it's just another thing on the to-do list. I'll check it off and then be done with it, but governments like those in Detroit and Denver, they're taking things a step further and they are really trying to engage with their residents in the way you just described. This might seem like a silly question, but why is it important that residents care about that information that's being released?

Kate Nadolski: I am so glad that you asked this question because it's something that is so important to highlight, but also very easy to overlook. People have so much going on. I think it's safe to say that most people lead a very busy life. If someone doesn't care about something, chances are, they're not going to listen. When they do not listen, your message has essentially been lost. Now, when you think about public safety agencies and local government, many times that information that they're sharing is extremely important. Sometimes, as we know, even life saving. I think that speaks to how critical it is to really take a step back and reevaluate how you're communicating with your community and if you're truly getting your message across.

Switching gears for a minute, I know you mentioned the various departments have hired chief storytellers to play that role in their departments. If that's something an organization out there doesn't have the means to do but is still looking for ways to build rapport with their community, I would recommend that they take a look at some of the local resources near them. As a former journalist, I have done countless stories with law enforcement, city officials. The list goes on. Local news stations look for stories to tell in their community. Reach out to them with anything that you might like them to cover, and there's a really good chance that they would be happy to do it. For instance, we loved going to educational events that were put on by the local police department and then sharing that information both in the newscast and also online. This helped this department to get their message across, and then that agency could also take that story and post it on their own social channels or website.

Kate’s Favorite Government Stories

Beth Amman: I love that you bring up this kind of idea of public private partnerships. Tyler's mission is empowering people who serve the public, so encouraging local governments to find those partnerships with other companies like news stations, like you said, that can really help them spread their message far and wide. Like you said earlier in this conversation that there are some things that are truly life saving information that needs to get out there, so finding those partners who are looking to share your message, who are looking to get information out for you is going to be absolutely crucial. We've talked about the why behind storytelling, a little bit of why it's important, but I think we should tell some stories now. I think we should tell some of our favorite stories. Kate, can you tell me about some local government stories that you are loving right now?

Kate Nadolski: Oh, definitely. The first example that comes to mind is out of Florida. An agency there has been extremely effective in sharing critical information with their community during COVID. They've been working diligently to protect residents and their staff ever since the beginning of the pandemic, much like a lot of agencies across the nation. They use data to track COVID cases and create up to date lists and heat maps that highlight how bad things really were, and then those general areas that were the hardest hit. Now, this information was passed up to the mayor and other officials and local government who then used it to make educated decisions to protect the community. The list, of course, never included specifics due to laws, but still this vague information really helped to inform the community of what they were facing.

If you recall, at the start of the pandemic, I think most areas, if not all, were faced with a lot of chaos, a lot of unknown, which led to a lot of misinformation being posted and shared on social media, among many other things. Now, it also did not help that there were several questions about this new virus that even the top doctors and scientists just didn't have the answers to yet. Through all of that chaos and misinformation, the agency was able to equip their community with facts and the knowledge that they needed to make their own decisions about how to protect themselves. That's why it's so important to ensure that your community is truly engaging with those messages that you're putting out there.

For instance, if a high risk person in that specific community was not receiving those critical COVID related messages, there's a really good chance they could have unknowingly put themselves in many very high risk scenarios when it could have been avoided altogether had they been receiving those messages. I think that just encompasses the overall message that at the end of the day, knowledge is power, and the more that our public safety agencies and government agencies can share information, the better they're going to be able to serve their communities.

Beth Amman: Absolutely. I think it's so easy when you see something that says like, mission critical or breaking news to be like, oh gosh, another thing, and to ignore it, but like you said, this was empowering people to make decisions for themselves. If they didn't have that knowledge, they wouldn't have known how to keep themselves safe. It's so, so wonderful that Florida was able to do this and contextualize this information and not just say, here's another breaking news update. There's a breaking news update every four seconds. It's too easy to tune out. We are all guilty of it. I want to know more stories, Kate. What else do you got?

Kate Nadolski: Okay. Another example that I would love to share with you, I think it really drives home the point about how powerful storytelling can be. Now, this one is a very emotional story. It's back from my news reporting days, but it's something that's always just truly stuck with me, and I think it demonstrates the magnitude of what an emotionally driven story can really do. A few years ago there was a woman named Sarah. She was in her mid 30s, and unfortunately she had stage four ovarian cancer. At this time, she was in Hospice care at her home, spending the last of her days with her fiance and her three young kids. Now, one day, someone at my station found a GoFundMe for Sarah. In that GoFundMe, she wrote that she was trying to raise money for her own funeral, and that doing so would complete her last dying wish so her family was not left with a financial burden. That alone, I had to take a step back and reread it. The fact that this young woman was trying to do this, that was her last dying wish.

We reached out to her and she agreed to do a story with us. That very day we went to her home and we sat with her and her family, and she told us how she was feeling, what it was like to be near death at such a young age, and also what she wanted to leave behind. That was her advice to the world. That advice being that she wants people to know that you should make the absolute most of your time because you truly don't know what your future holds, her then stating that she thought she was going to have more time to live out the big plans that she had for her life. She finished that interview by telling us how much it would mean to her to leave this earth knowing that her end of life expenses were not going to burden her family. We went back to the station, we put that story together, and it aired in our 11:00 newscast that night.

By the next morning, I woke up and I checked Sarah's GoFundMe and it had exceeded its several thousand dollar goal. Unfortunately, just a few days later, Sarah passed away with her family by her side, but with that last wish fulfilled. Her local community and the viewers of that story did that for her. They helped her to fulfill that wish because they heard her story and they understood how much it truly meant to her. I think just that alone is the true power of a story. The emotion in something like that really has the tendency to stick with people and even change the way that they think about something.

Beth Amman: That is just such a touching story. It's heartbreaking and it's so compelling the fact that it's wonderful that you all were able to share her story and give it a wider audience so that you could complete her final wish. You said it just really shows how powerful a story can be. It causes you to think about your community in a bigger way instead of just thinking like, here's another news story. People were touched by that and compelled to action and able to support each other. I just think that's going to stick with me for a while too. Thank you for sharing that, Kate.

Kate Nadolski: Yeah, of course. I'm very curious to hear if you have any favorite stories. I know you're very passionate about stories from government agencies. Anything that stood out to you?

Beth Amman: Yeah. I'd love to share some. Here at Tyler, I typically work with our Socrata solutions, so I have seen a lot of governments using their data around COVID-19, so using data to get out information about their jurisdictions, COVID cases, testing efforts, recovery work, and getting that all into the hands of stakeholders at different levels of government. One that comes to mind is San Francisco. San Francisco leverages our Socrata solution to share COVID-19 data with their community, but they frame it within a story. When you go to their website, data.SFgov.org, they detail so many things, like why they're sharing this information, what you can find within the page, different visuals and links to all sorts of things from press releases from the mayor to raw data. By contextualizing these numbers into a story format, folks are more easily able to read, understand and act based on the data.

Like I said at the top of this conversation, if you give me a wall of numbers, eyes are going to glaze over. I am going to tune out. You've lost me. San Francisco does this incredible job of making sure that people care enough and understand enough to read the information and absorb it and put themselves in safer positions.

While we're sharing examples, we've hit some heavy topics thus far, just to give us a little boost. One of my other favorite stories of local governments using storytelling is the Norfolk Animal Care and Adoption Center in Norfolk, Virginia. They have a story called Finding Furever Homes, F-U-R Ever homes, and it shares data on adoptable animals. Comes along with one of my favorite things besides storytelling, pictures of puppies and kittens.

Kate Nadolski: We have that in common because I also love pictures of puppies and kittens. I think most people do. It sounds like a fantastic way to really get people engaged. You can't go wrong with puppies.

Beth Amman: I think one of our tips at the end of this might have to be, always include a picture of a puppy and/or kitten on your page. No matter the topic, no matter the information, just add a picture of a puppy. Someone will pay more attention. Maybe that won't go into the official list of tips, but just put that anecdotally. Oh my gosh. Beyond thinking about how they can add puppies and kittens into their stories, our listeners are probably asking themselves, where do I start? What can government leaders do right now to take what they're communicating and put it into a story that will resonate with their audience?

Kate Nadolski: Yeah. I think sometimes the act of actually getting started is the hardest part. I would first recognize that anyone can be an effective storyteller. Have that confidence that you are more than capable of sending an engaging message that will be well received by your audience. Now, some other things that I will throw in here, you want to make sure that you are seeking out original ideas to talk about or write about, because if you copy something, you're essentially creating something else that your audience can find elsewhere, and you absolutely do not want that. The next thing is making sure that everything that you're writing is very conversational. If it's too difficult to read, chances are the person will just move on to the next thing.

I think this kind of goes back to what you mentioned about San Francisco; really making the message they were trying to get off very easy to read. If it was difficult to read, I'm sure a lot of those residents would've just passed it up and have not really taken the time to understand it, but because they really broke it down and put it in a story format, it became easily consumable. Another thing to keep in mind is to let this story dictate its own length. When you try to make something longer than it needs to be, you're in turn burying that message and making it more difficult for the reader to walk away with the most important information that you wanted them to take away. If it's meant to be shorter, let it be shorter, or if it's the best interview you've ever conducted, let it be a long story.

 

Creating an Effective Story

Beth Amman: So good. Thank you for sharing that. I had to take a personal reminder to allow the story to dictate the length. I know when I am writing, I'm like 300 words, 500 words, especially if you're doing a press release and trying to share critical information. It doesn't have to be that long. It can just be the important key points. Let's say everyone is now an incredible storyteller. They have created these gorgeous stories that they have taken into account all of the wonderful things you've shared thus far. How do people put it to the test and ensure that they have created an effective story?

Kate Nadolski: Well, something I've learned from other marketing experts is to take a step back, and as you mentioned, put your content to the test, and you can do that by asking a series of questions. For this specifically, I'm going to use a content idea that you might get a kick out of; that is chickens crossing the road, because who doesn't need a good throwback occasionally? Here are the three questions. The very first one is, does my audience care about these chickens? If they don't care, why would they listen? If your audience or community has no interest in the topic that you're covering, you might want to find a new topic, or in the scenario that it's important information that you must communicate, you should take a step back and explore different ways that you could present that information that may be more interactive or engaging to your audience.

The second question is, are these chickens crossing the road now or are they about to? This speaks entirely to timeliness. If the chickens crossed the road 20 years ago, why would my audience care? Now, I want to note that there are exceptions to this, like notable anniversaries of really big historical events. For instance, a story about the lasting impacts of Hurricane Katrina on the anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, but just overall, keep in mind you just want to make sure that what you're talking about is relevant to your audience and relevant to what they're going through in their lives and what's happening in the world at that time.

The last question, which is probably my favorite, is why does it matter that chickens cross the road? Your content or story must have value. It has to matter. A really great way to ensure that you are creating and sending a valuable message is to really think about what you want your audience to walk away with knowing after they're done reading or watching your story, and then making sure that whatever you're putting out there truly conveys that message. I think if you take some time with whatever you create and truly ask yourself these three questions, you will be creating relevant, exciting, and valuable content for your audience.

Beth Amman: I love that framework. Honestly, I need you to go tell my dad this framework, because if he or my grandfather had considered this framework before telling me silly why did the chicken cross the road jokes, they would've gotten way less eye rolls from me. This is valuable for everyone. Kate, my key takeaways so far, just to reiterate, to make sure we're all consolidating the information, is everyone is a storyteller, know your audience, pick the right person to deliver your message, be genuine in your message, and remember to ask the questions about chickens so you don't embarrass your child and then they talk about it on a podcast 20 years from now. It's a very important lesson for everyone out there.

Kate Nadolski: I love that. I need to hear about when your dad gets to hear this podcast.

Beth Amman: Oh, I will definitely let you know. I am sure he is rolling his own eyes at this and thinking I've just given you content for your memoir. You should feel grateful. Well, Kate, thank you so much for joining the podcast. It has been so fun talking to you and I really think everyone is going to find all of these tips really, really valuable.

Kate Nadolski: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. Again, I will take any opportunity to talk about our favorite thing; storytelling. Thank you so much.

Beth Amman: Well, Kate and I have obviously devoted a lot of our life to storytelling, but the fundamental elements of storytelling are something that we all know, even if we don't realize it. Storytelling can help us share messages, find common ground and build community. We can't wait to see what our local government leaders do with this tool. If you're interested in reading some of our favorite stories, you can find them on the Tyler Tech Resource Center, and we'd also love to hear from you. Find us on social media and share your stories with us. Thanks again to Kate for joining and to Jeff for having me as a guest host.

Jeff Harrell: Well, I'm sure you can see why I was so excited to have Beth join the Tyler Tech Podcast. I love storytelling. Storytelling is something I think is so important today to really connect and engage with someone, and I love the conversation that Beth just had with Kate, so thank you both, Kate and Beth, for having that conversation, and Beth, super excited to have you on the Tyler Tech Podcast. Well, thanks again for joining me and for joining Beth. You will hear from Beth from time to time throughout the year. We drop new episodes of the Tyler Tech Podcast every other Monday, so please subscribe. Until then, I'm Jeff Harrell for Tyler Technologies. We'll talk to you soon.